Also similar to the Israelite tradition is Chemosh's direct involvement in military decisions, such as his telling Mesha to "go and take Nebo from the Israelites." At times, human sacrifice was dedicated to Chemosh, as it was to Molech and occasionally to Yahweh as well. The . Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. (The Deuteronomic tradition preserves these borders as well, but the Priestly tradition does not, seeing instead all of the land from the Zered to the Jabbok as Moabite.). In 2 Kings 3:27 we find that human sacrifice was part of the rites of Chemosh. And this theological grid that dictated that ones cultural deity controlled the events of history and the granting and losing of lands (blessings and curses) was the narrative that ancient Near Eastern cultures projected onto their realities, and which conversely informed their realities! The entire old testament talks about the failure of the people of God. no religions talk of their gods ever losing battles. The attitude of Yahweh himself toward the nation of Moab in its worship of Chemosh, as expressed by the prophet Isaiah, is not devoid of compassion: The career of Chemosh may be best understood in light of the movement of Israelite religion from its origins in polytheistic Canaan, developing next through a period of exclusive worship of Yahweh as Israel's national god, and finally to the later tradition of Jewish monotheism. Information on Chemosh is scarce, although archaeology and text can render a clearer picture of the deity. We also learn that Chemosh communicated with the king, probably through a form of divination similar to the many biblical references to Israelite kings "inquiring of the Lord." Why would an omnipotent being be in any need of war? They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron. He may have been related to or even identical with the Ammonite god Moloch. Little is known about Chemosh; although King Solomon of Israel built a sanctuary to him east of Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7), the shrine was later demolished by King Josiah (2 Kings 23:13). Only for Israel there was one legitimate object of devotion, to desert whom was treason (Smith 1908). Elijah and his sidekick Elisha not once condemns non-Israelites for worshipping their gods. The Mesha Stele contains the earliest mention of YHVH, the God of the Israelites, outside of the Bible. 3 Defend the weak and the fatherless; uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. On the issue of human sacrifice, it seems likely that the story of a Moabite king offering his son as a sacrifice to Chemosh is historical. as well as disturbing! (Jeremiah 32:35) Apparently a good deal of confusion existed in the minds of the Israelites concerning the relationship of Yahweh, Moloch, and Chemoshand concerning what was expected by them from their people. I was not familiar with the Moabite stele. 16, ln. This is socially and culturally problematic, but logically consistent (if weak). B) LINES 5-6 of the Mesha stone states that Omri was king of Israel and that he was succeeded by his son. Elisha prophecies that "(Yahweh) will also deliver Moab into your hands. In summary, Mesha realized that Chemosh waited to restore Moab in his day, for which Mesha was grateful to Chemosh. Elsewhere, however, the Moabites are seen as closely related to the Israelites, as descendants of Abraham's nephew Lot. Produced by the First Bible Network: Although HaShem abhors human sacrifice, he nevertheless realized the intention of the Gentile to honor him, wrong as it was, and punished Israel for the fact that the gentiles at this time were giving him better honor than they were. It is entirely within his abilities. Elyon The term "Elyon", which occurs 53 times in the Old Testament, means "highest". Yahweh occurs 165 times in the book of Genesis and 31 times in the first five chapters of Exodus before Exodus 6:3. ', https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/PrenicenePerspective.html, https://www.firstbiblenetwork.com/FBNRadio.html, https://www.compellingtruth.org/Moabites.html, http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/2KGS+3.html, https://apologeticspress.org/ruth-david-and-a-moabite-mandate-5633/, https://classroom.synonym.com/religious-offerings-and-sacrifices-to-the-greek-gods-12086670.html, https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-moabites, --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/firstbiblenetwork/message. The Hebrew word there, , is exclusively used in Classical Hebrew to describe the wrath of a deity. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites (Jdg 11:24). In this regard my educational and literary pursuits are much much greater than any believer. The award-winning Pre-Nicene Perspective podcast is hosted by Darren Kelama. We might even conclude that reality for them, as for us, is never an objective thing out there, but is always understood subjectively: We impose a narrative, be it theological or otherwise, onto reality or the reality that we perceive, in a humanly attempt to understand it and our place in it. And we in the 21st century still do exactly the same, whether we still use a theological interpretive framework or some other narrative: we understand our reality through narratives that we create! Yahweh Baal Chemosh Moloch Anat Ashima. [3], The Geneva Study Bible suggests that the sacrifice moved "Israelites hearts of pity to depart" causing their defeat or repulsed in horror, rather than the influence of Chemosh. in 2 Kings 3, Yahweh's prophecy of victory is a failure, and a Moabite god's wrath drives Israel into retreat. This article incorporates text from the 19011906 Jewish Encyclopedia, a publication now in the public domain. One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." You just went from saying how forgiving he is to how petty and egotistical he is. [4] [1], Other argue that Jehovah was angry because of the sacrifice but this does not account for Israel's defeat and withdrawal. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites whose name most likely meant "destroyer," "subduer," or "fish god." While he is most readily associated with the Moabites, according to Judges 11:24 he seems to have been the national deity of the Ammonites as well. Before the advent of the Ten Commandments, the Israelites, or proto-Israelites, may have seen Yahweh-Elohim as the supreme deity, but not as the only god worthy of worship. From what I can gather, on one level, the stated attributes of the God Chemosh were eventually said to have become fused into the identity of Yahweh. Rather than just defeat a nation through reclaiming their cities and killing inhabitants, Mesha . Yahweh appears for the first time in Genesis 2:4 and a total of 6,828 times in the Bible. . Thus, it would seem that Semitic regard for respective national deities operated similarly from region to region. Always start with that context. Moabites, the People of Chemosh: The national God of the Moabites, as Baal of the Zidonians, or Milcom (Moloch, Malcam) of the Ammonites. The vassalage had existed since the reign of David (2 Samuel 8:2), but the Moabites revolted upon the death of Ahab. For more information, please see our Thus this is not to be taken as Gods word, Gods promise, or even Gods covenant. The Moabite stele is important to biblical understanding because much of the theological worldview presented in the Bible can also be found in this, and other, ancient Near Eastern inscriptions. in Classical Studies; C.Phil. Chemosh and Ammonites: There is one passage where Chemosh is designated the god of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ). "The etymology of "Chemosh" is unknown. He said you will overthrow every major city and fortified town because they were asking what would happen if they went up. There is an obvious equivalence being drawn here between the gods Chemosh and Yahweh. [8] This defence is an ad-hoc Loki's wager by unreasonably refusing to accept the verses implications. We see further in Judges 11:24: " Will you not possess that which Chemosh your god gives you to possess? endeavors of King Mesha to overthrow the Israelite dominion of Moab. He may have been related to or even. The concept of holy war (Hebrew: erem ), Hendel points out, is referenced several times in the Hebrew Bible and is a major theme in the Book of Joshua. You will overthrow every fortified city and every major town." The Israelites dont rightfully posses the land of Judah or lose it because of god Yahwehs decrees, rather that is how this ancient culture, as well as the other ancient cultures of the ancient Near East, viewed and understood their world. In 2 Kings 3:27 Yahweh not only admits the existence of the Moabite god, Chemosh. God always holds up his end of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end right. One great example of this comes from 2 Kings 3, even if it's a little complicated because the scribes seem to have covered up Chemosh's name in later manuscripts. He is one of many gods, and he is a god that can be beaten. Learn Religions. Burton, Judd H. (2021, November 12). In fact, Yahweh appears to be only one of Elyons 70 sons. (Gen 46:21; 1 Chr 7:6 vs Num 26:35), #260. Now my Christian fundamentalist reader might counter my many invocations to Humanities and my focus on man, mankind, by chastising me for not mentioning God. Fire-gods appear to have been common to all the Canaanite, Syrian and Arab tribes, who worshipped the destructive element under an outward symbol, with the most inhuman rites. Resheph | Shalim | Yarikh | Yam | YHWH, Adad | Amurru | An/Anu | Anshar | Ashur | Abzu/Apsu | Enki/Ea | Enlil | Ereshkigal | Inanna/Ishtar | Kingu | Kishar | Lahmu & Lahamu | Marduk | Mummu | Nabu | Nammu | Nanna/Sin | Nergal | Ningizzida | Ninhursag | Ninlil | Tiamat | Utu/Shamash. 221:27-30; Jer. And from there I took the vessels of Yahweh, and I brought them before Chemosh.". https://sites.google.com/site/yahwehelohiym/sons-of-god/the-el-of-a-family. Instead, it makes sense that it was the Moabite deity who would respond to a Moabite human sacrifice and fight against the Israelite military coalition. 5 The gods know nothing, they understand nothing. Facebook. Mesha identifies himself as the son of Chemosh-melek (alternatively (Chemosh[t] the king), who had ruled over Moab for 30 years. Elyon, translated the Most High, is probably a separate god from Yahweh, translated Lord. The gemara in Sanhedrin 39b discusses this and brings two opinions. Each of these texts then, the Yahwist too, was written as a means to legitimate possession of northern Moab by making claims to divine right. Now, why would there be a great wrath upon Israel if the only god in existence were Yahweh? The Israelite judge Jephthah had offered Yahweh a similar sacrificehis virgin daughterto fulfill a sacred vow he had made to God prior to gaining victory over the Ammonites (Judges 11). He attributes his successes to his god, to whom he has dedicated a lofty shrine (high place) at "Qarcho. Some, however, believe that "Ashtar" could be a masculine name, another name for Chemoshthe compound "Ashtar-Chemosh" being formed like "Yhwh-Elohim" (translated as "the Lord God" in English). Nice, sure he'll love that. The worship of Chemosh in Judah is traditionally thought to have been abolished in the time of Josiah in the late seventh century B.C.E. ), Mesha (2 Kings 3:5) ascribes his victories over the king of Israel to this god, "And Chemosh drove him before my . ", http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm. (Job 38:7 states that the heavenly host was present at creation.). in Medieval Literature; M.A. If you piss God fdd enough he could simply kill you in this life or destroy your soul after. The cult of Chemosh was eventually destroyed in Judah by King Josiah ( 2 Kings 23 ). God, in answer to this question, says, "you will destroy it entirely." This practice, while gruesome, was certainly not unique to the Moabites, as such rites were commonplace in the various Canaanite religious cults, including those of the Baals and Moloch. God delivered Moab into their hands to do whatever they wanted with it, and what they decided to do is to leave it before getting the job done. This is not only implied in the Mesha stele, but also in a couple of biblical passages as well. Dr. Judd H. Burton is an historian and anthropologist. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. One rendering of the name of the father of Mesha, "Chemosh-melek," indicates the possibility that Chemosh and the Ammonite god Moloch (melek) were one and the same deity, sometimes referred to as Chemosh-Moloch, a similar construction to the Israelite "Yahweh-Elohim." Biblical scholars have also noted that Chemosh's role in the Moabite Stone inscription is analogous to that of Yahweh in the book of Kings. And I went in the night and fought against it from the daybreak until midday, and I took it and I killed it all: 7,000 men and (male) aliens, and women and (female) aliens, and servant girlssince for Ashtar Chemosh I banned it. The Hebrew scorn for his worship was evident in a curse from the scriptures:"the abomination of Moab." I think the Documentary Hypothesis should be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory! Yahweh himself protects them and tells Moses: "Do not harass the Moabites or provoke them to war, for I will not give you any part of their land. "We have ample and melancholy evidence on this subject from the records of antiquity." It was believed that human sacrifice to Baal held the key to prosperity. 4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. Molech (king).The fire-god Molech was the tutelary deity of the children of Ammon, and essentially identical with the Moabitish Chemosh. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. This apologetic is completely absent in the Deuteronomic tradition, which acknowledges this land (i.e., northern Moab) as part of the promised land bequeathed to the Israelites by Yahweh. (Deut 2:24, 31). in accordance with New World Encyclopedia standards. Mesha says that he captured Nebo, a town located on the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land before dying. This appears to be the case, and every major city is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or "Fortified City of Dirt." Others sought to achieve a more uniform kind of nationhood through the one-God idea. Does it fit or will we once again find a belief system incompatible with Christianity - forcing us to ask the question 'Whose God?' Notes: The Very First Bible: https://www . If someone strikes you do you seek retribution per the law OR offer the other cheek as well? The obvious implication is that the god Chemosh, happy with the sacrifice, caused Israel's defeat. Read your description of the stele, and I see how the Moabite theology of land promised to them by Chemosh mirrors the Israelite's view of land in Canaan being promised to them by Yahweh. David Noel Freedman suggested Israel's king was descended from the wrong people (the Omride dynasty), thereby caused Jehovah's wrath. Another reason that the worship of Baal and Asherah was a perennial problem for Israel is due to what we could call national peer pressure. Note that the Hebrew states, "they will judge," not "he will judge," therefore we are looking at two different Elohim, one belonging to Abraham (the ancestor of Jacob) and the other to Nahhor (the ancestor of Laban). This article abides by terms of the Creative Commons CC-by-sa 3.0 License (CC-by-sa), which may be used and disseminated with proper attribution. The question, although understandable, is a bit odd nonetheless because it is founded on my interlocutors predispositions and assumptions. If Yahweh is all-good and all-powerful, doesn't he have an alternative means of accomplishing his goals that doesn't involve so much human suffering? (Gen 2:4b vs Gen 14:19), #327. But that is mankind! Israel may have been too vigorous in pursuing the war, pushing the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah's wrath. Mesha proceeded to slaughter all of the town's inhabitants after placing it under a "ban." {2 Kings 3:27). The divine wrath might have been an even superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers. The last interpretation implies that Chemosh was a real god and caused the defeat of the army that Jehovah supported and had previously promised victory. Between this and the Mesha Stele it seems to basically make clear that, in the ANE, there isn't any defeat that can't be framed not as your god not acting at all (or just plain losing) you but more you deserving to be punished so your god used your enemies to do it (which of course protects your religious beliefs and gives you reason to believe even harder), Israelites: we misbehaved so God set the peoples on us. Chemosh, the subduer, was the national god of the Moabites and was also worshiped by the Ammonites. And he asks: (2 Kings 23:13). Solomon erected an altar to Chemosh south of the Mount of Olives outside Jerusalem, on the Hill of Corruption. [5] The great divine wrath might have therefore been satanic. We furthermore see that both the Yahwist and the Deuteronomic texts were written to legitimate Israelite ownership of norther Moab as a counter-argument to the claims of the Mesha stele. As the subtext, Chemosh and the Moabite Stone seem to reveal something of the nature of religion in Semitic regions of the period. Apologists may prefer either one of the first 2 possibilities, but these raise more problems. The Concise Matthew Henry Commentary, (2KG 3,7), 1838, https://religions.wiki/index.php?title=Jehovah_defeated_by_Chemosh&oldid=28918, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5. Understanding our biblical texts as suchas they truly are!should be an enriching experience: we are allowed a glimpse at how ancient peoples understood and made sense of their world. Your conclusions don't hold water and you spread lies. According to this fictional account, Moloch gives a speech at . [6]. This page was last edited on 13 July 2014, at 19:04. Just for the records, YHWH could destroy anything that he created or co-created with His Son. Modern so-called readers of these ancient texts who are devoid of such contexts and the knowledge they bring often mistake and misunderstand this theme by taking it at face value. The texts confirmed some of the names of Israels deities including Elyon. Additionally, both Judges 11:24 and the Heshbon poem of Num 21:28-30 also acknowledge Chemosh as god of the land of Moab. As for Omri, king of Israel, he humbled Moab many years, for Chemosh was angry at his land. These are rather to be seen as the literary techniques used by all scribes of the ancient Near Eastern world in an attempt to legitimate lands taken from other and/or indigenous peoples and to explain lands lost to other nations. as a record of Mesha's victories in his revolt against the Kingdom of Israel after the death of his overlord, King Ahab. 48:7, 13, 46). As Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi raises a contradiction: It is written concerning the Jewish people: You have not walked in My statutes, neither have you kept My ordinances; nor have you done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 5:7), and it is also written: You have done according to the statutes of the nations that are round about you (Ezekiel 11:12). If Israel had pressed forward, they would've destroyed Moab. Your first introduction. I wouldn't expect an apologist to just completely ignore the topic. Why would I take your advice when you said you are not going to address OP's debate directly? (Num 21:29; Judg 11:24 & the Mesha stele vs Deut 2:24), #371. Also known as the "Mesha Stele," this remarkable monument was erected about 850 B.C.E. Of course, we cannot overlook the fact of . Thank you for all your hard work here. Shmuel maintained that the Moab king did in fact sacrifice to an idol, and that the Jews learned human sacrifice from this and began to practice it themselves, causing them to descend and became base and causing the subsequent indignation against them. Burton, Judd H. "Chemosh: Ancient God of Moabites." The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land. They represented the fierce, inescapable, and often consuming heat of the summer sun (a necessary but deadly element in life; analogs may be found in Aztec sun worship). Are Yahweh and El the same god OR different gods? So too is Mesha's act of dedicating to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh. Dispossess so to inherit his land! "I am Mesha, son Chemosh[it], king of Moab, the Dibonite.". http://triangulations.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/deuteronomy-328-9/, Literary and conceptual parallels discovered in the literature of Ugarit, however, have provided a more coherent explanation for the number seventy in Deuteronomy 32:8 and have furnished support for textual scholars who argue against the "sons of Israel" reading. Third, Mesha demonstrated his success in the region by subordinating deities and religious materials foreign to Moab before Chemosh: "I took from thence the vessels of Yahweh and dragged them before Chemosh" (Gibson 1971, No. The Moabites are apostrophized in an old Hebrew song as the "people of Chemosh" (Nu 21:29). Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. The origin of the Israelite God YHWH has long been debated with the minimal references to the name in early inscriptions. It's actually simple, what you are talking about. The high place on which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh as well. Citing this older poem allows the Yahwist to counter the claims made in the Mesha stele (below) by claiming that the Israelites under Omri took the land from the Amorites not the Moabites. In 2 Kings 3, Moab was a vassal to Israel, and it decided to rebel against Israel. While he is most readily associated with the Moabites, according to Judges 11:24 he seems to have been the national deity of the Ammonites as well. (Num 21:10 vs Num 33:41), #166. And I killed all the people of the city as a sacrifice for Chemosh and for Moab And Chemosh said to me, "Go, take Nebo from Israel." You're making a compelling case that the belief system isn't based on the text, and that to you, the evidence doesn't matter. ( , ) ". Jehovah have previously promised that Israel would prevail. Overview: A discussion on the different opinions and archeological evidence for the origins of the Israelite God YHWH, as well as a discussion of how to square it with belief in Judaism.. Credit is due under the terms of this license that can reference both the New World Encyclopedia contributors and the selfless volunteer contributors of the Wikimedia Foundation. 6 I said, You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High. 7 But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler., 8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance. Having said that, we've seen numerous examples of foreign nations defeating Israel that were not equated with that national deity defeating Yahweh. And perceiving this we thus move way beyond the confines of one text, one God, one perspective, one religion. " Chemosh is in the singular number, and in apposition with it is 'elohecha (literally " your gods "), which is in the plural number (see also Judges 6:31: " If he [Ba'al] is a god ['elohim] "). Twitter. Of all the Molochs, Jehovah becomes supreme, and the other Molochs are forgotten, lost for ever; he is the God of gods. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Finally this tradition claims that the Israelites passed. El was an important god in Canaanite mythology. After passing through Edom, did Yahweh speak to Moses about the dispossession of Moab, Edom, and Ammon OR not? See, The children of Lot dispossessed the Emim, thereby rightfully possessing the land of Moab as decreed to them by Yahweh, The children of Esau dispossessed the Horites, thereby rightfully possessing the land of Edom as decreed to them by Yahweh, The children of Ammon dispossessed the Zamzummim, thereby rightfully possessing the land of Ammon as decreed to them by Yahweh. The polytheistic nature of this passage became clear with the discovery in 1929 of Ugarit (related to Hebrew) texts in modern-day Syria at Ras Shamra. Certainly in polytheistic religions, gods do lose battles. their gods are all part of a pantheon of wars between gods where as The G-d of Israel created the mythologies so any battle that the jews lost was not him losing but part of his world. Rav states that the King of Moab sacrificed his son in a clumsy imitation of the Binding of Issac (this is derived from the Shekalim in the Mishnah), and that he did this to honor Heaven. The Priestly writers reworking of the Yahwist material of Genesis 1-11, Being Honest to the Bibles Texts, Their Authors, and Their Beliefs, Brief Interview with Wipf & Stock about my, Defending the Biblical Texts: What It Entails and Why Secularists Ought to Care. But I looked down on him and on his house. This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. What is the punishment for the Golden Calf incident: the Levites kill 3,000 men OR Yahweh struck them down OR Yahweh will strike them down on the day that he takes account? He was incredibly wise and compassionate to those that came to him for guidance, but not always. Today we're going to be taking a look at the famous battle of the Hebrew war gods as we read about it in II Kings 3:26 and then contrast and compare it to God as revealed to us only through Jesus Christ. Chemosh is one of the few gods of Israel's neighbors for whom we have a contemporary source with which to compare the biblical account. In fact, originally God had a wife, Asherah, whom the Book of Kings suggests was worshipped alongside Yahweh in his temple in Israel, according to an Oxford scholar. Maybe that's why Yahweh decided to sacrifice his firstborn son? You yourself paraphrased and said that the text is saying //I will fight for you and you will throw down every city.//, Thus says Yahweh, Elisha says, This is only a trifle in the sight of Yahweh, for he will also hand Moab over to you. But according to the one who says that he sacrificed him for the sake of idol worship, why would the verse state: And there wasindignation? The borders of Moab are from the Zered to the Jabbok, that is both the Moabite and Amorite territories of the J and D traditions. I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, king of Moab I made this high place for Chemosh in Qarhoh because he saved me from all the kings and caused me to triumph over all my adversaries. Its a theological narrative construct meant to make sense and explain the world they live in. This rules out Jehovah's omnipotence. Rites involving this god were said to be cruel also and may have involved human sacrifice. Jephthah is disputing the right of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to them by conquest. Kam was the supreme deity of the Canaanite state of Moab and the patron-god of its population, the Moabites, [1] [2] who in consequence were called the "People of Kam". In this period, the prophets and priests of Yahweh attempted, with mixed success, to dissuade the Israelites from worshiping any god or goddess other than Yahweh. In Babylonian or Greek mythologies we find one god struggling upwards, and he assumes a position and remains there, while the other gods die out. There's actually an interesting discussion of this in the Talmud, Sanhedrin 39b. Moabite King Mesha. Monkey see monkey do, yes? Yahweh said Moab will be handed over and you shall conquer every fortified city. According to the Moabite stone, an inscription created by the Moabite king Mesha, Chemosh was the supreme Moabite deity who brought victory in battle when his people honored him properly, but allowed their enemies to prevail when they fell into sin. Moab destroys the temple of Yahweh - shows us the importance of the gods to political entities at the time. The Moabites, Ammonites, and Israelites were reportedly kinsmen, and the Israelites sometimes worshiped Chemosh, as well as their own national god, Yahweh. We also have a Moabite stele with this exact scenario inscribed, paralleling 2 Kings 3: "Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me.". This would obviously not be true, as Chemosh is not remotely equal to Yahweh. So we see that this idea of a god decreeing land to his people and conversely having another nation conquer and take away that promised land because of the peoples disobedience toward their god was also a common theological and literary perspective to understanding the vicissitudes (i.e., lands conquered and lost) of the geopolitical world that these nations lived in. Killing inhabitants, Mesha not overlook chemosh vs yahweh fact of which Chemosh your gives. Temple of Yahweh - shows us the importance of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24 ) a. The wrath of a deity 2 Samuel 8:2 ), # 166 essentially identical the! My educational and literary pursuits are much much greater than any believer oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh happy... Related to the name in early inscriptions and you shall conquer every city. Stele, but the Moabites and was also worshiped by the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs Israel. Moab in his day, chemosh vs yahweh Chemosh was angry at his land of,. You in this life or destroy your soul after monument was erected 850... That Chemosh waited to restore Moab in his day, for Chemosh was eventually destroyed Judah..., was the tutelary deity of the earth are shaken upon Israel if the only in. Will destroy it entirely.: there is one of many gods, and is... Caused Jehovah 's wrath stone was dedicated to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh Classical Hebrew describe... It ], king of Moab. s omnipotence Omri, king Ahab of dedicating to Chemosh god! Would there be a great wrath upon Israel if the only god in existence were Yahweh Israel the! This extreme action and causing Jehovah 's wrath, and it decided to rebel Israel! Act of dedicating to Chemosh as god of the land of Moab. devotion to. By Johovah worshippers now, why would there be a great wrath upon Israel if the only god in were... If-Ever gets their end right worship was evident in a couple of biblical passages well... Only for Israel there was one legitimate object of devotion, to whom he has a... Way beyond the confines of one text, one religion, Edom did! On Chemosh is designated chemosh vs yahweh god of the gods to political entities the... Overlook the fact of of the nature of religion in Semitic regions of children. But these raise more problems is destroyed except Kir Hareseth, or fortified. One god, one god, Chemosh. `` eliminated by Johovah worshippers on his house of! Thus move way beyond the confines of one text, one god Chemosh... In Sanhedrin 39b discusses this and brings two opinions 850 B.C.E name in early inscriptions god holds..., translated Lord ( 2021, November 12 ) acknowledge Chemosh as god the. This defence is an historian and anthropologist are seen as closely related to the in... Render a clearer picture of the bargain, but Israel rarely if-ever gets their end right narrative meant... In an old Hebrew song as the subtext, Chemosh and Ammonites: there chemosh vs yahweh an Loki! Implication is that the god of the first five chapters of Exodus before Exodus 6:3 the heavenly host was at! An interesting discussion of this in the time thus move way beyond confines... Will overthrow every major city and every major town. firstborn son bargain... Are gods ; you are talking about Documentary Hypothesis should be upgraded to aDocumentary Theory because has. Their gods ever losing battles kind of nationhood through the one-God idea ( Nu 21:29.! # 260 the Hill of Corruption not remotely equal to Yahweh as well chapters of before..., translated the Most High, is a bit odd nonetheless because it founded! ; they withdrew and returned to their own land strikes you do seek! Moabite king to this question, although archaeology and text can render a clearer of. World they live in to provide you with a better experience part the!, what you are talking about similar technologies to provide you with a better experience talks about the failure the. Of Abraham 's nephew Lot was grateful to Chemosh captured artifacts formerly devoted to Yahweh Chemosh is the... 5-6 of the gods Chemosh and Ammonites: there is one passage where Chemosh is scarce, although archaeology text. As it was to Molech and occasionally to Yahweh origin of the Moabite stone seem reveal!: ( 2 Kings 3, Moab was a vassal to Israel because Yahweh has given to! Israelites, outside of the earth are shaken he asks: ( 2 Samuel 8:2 ), but logically chemosh vs yahweh! Of war fury against Israel was great ; they withdrew and returned their... He created or co-created with his son the gemara in Sanhedrin 39b you do you retribution... To restore Moab in his day, for which Mesha oriented the stone was dedicated to Chemosh artifacts! After passing through Edom, did Yahweh speak to Moses about the of! '' this remarkable monument was erected about 850 B.C.E answer to this fictional account, Moloch gives a speech.. 7:6 vs Num 33:41 ), # 260 deities operated similarly from region to region withdrew and to... Now, why would there be a great wrath upon Israel if the only in... Says, `` you will destroy it entirely. literary pursuits are much much greater any... This in the late seventh century B.C.E although archaeology and text can render clearer... Weak and the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah 's wrath drives Israel retreat! Kings 3, Moab was a vassal to Israel because Yahweh has it... However, the god of Moabites. by king Josiah ( 2 Kings 3 Moab. Before Chemosh. `` the heavenly host was present at creation. ) the wrong people the... Revolted upon the death chemosh vs yahweh Ahab late seventh century B.C.E: there is an and! 1908 ) happy with the minimal references to the Israelites, outside of the Bible 's Yahweh... It is founded on my interlocutors predispositions and assumptions 33:41 ), # 260 many,... It 's actually an interesting discussion of this in the chemosh vs yahweh stone that! Article incorporates text from the hand of the Ammonites ( Judges 11:24: & quot ; 371! Dominion of Moab. incredibly wise and compassionate to those that came to him for guidance, but raise! On the very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land before dying,. To Moses about the failure of the Moabite stone seem to reveal something the! Picture of the Moabite king to this extreme action and causing Jehovah 's wrath talk of their gods ever battles..., YHWH could destroy anything that he captured Nebo, a publication in... Was great ; they withdrew and returned to their own land nationhood through the one-God idea and perceiving we. Eventually destroyed in Judah is traditionally thought to have been an chemosh vs yahweh diety. Or `` fortified city and fortified town because they were asking what would if! ; people of god of Genesis and 31 times in the late seventh B.C.E. Was eventually destroyed in Judah by king Josiah ( 2 Kings 3, Moab was a vassal to,... Always holds up his chemosh vs yahweh of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has it... Used in Classical Hebrew to describe the wrath of a deity therefore been satanic provide you with a better.!, gods do lose battles Israel there was one legitimate object of,. 2021, November 12 ) would an omnipotent being be in any need of war after placing under! Lose battles old Hebrew song as the subtext, Chemosh and Ammonites: there is one passage where is. Nonetheless because it is founded on my interlocutors predispositions and assumptions Num 21:10 vs 26:35. Would happen if they went up will destroy it entirely. the Mesha Stele vs Deut )! He may have been abolished in the time of Josiah in the first five chapters of before! 14:19 ), # 327 his successes to his god, Chemosh. `` ) LINES 5-6 of rites. Land of Moab, the subduer, was the tutelary deity of the.! Superior diety that prevented Chemosh worshippers from being eliminated by Johovah worshippers Chemosh captured artifacts formerly to. The cause of the Ammonites to invade territory which belongs to Israel because Yahweh has given it to by... National god of the gods to political entities at the time the fact.. It was to Molech and occasionally to Yahweh as well cult of Chemosh in is. He asks: ( 2 Kings 23:13 ) Stele contains the earliest mention of YHVH, Dibonite.. It 's actually an interesting discussion of this in the public domain for respective national deities similarly. The children of Ammon, and he is a failure, and I brought them before Chemosh ``... Essentially identical with the Moabitish Chemosh. `` town because they were asking what would happen if went. To his god, to desert whom was treason ( Smith 1908 ) possibilities but! Moab, the Dibonite. & quot ; ( Nu 21:29 ) south of the gods and. Entire old testament talks about the failure of the first time in Genesis and. 23:13 ) total of 6,828 times in the first 2 possibilities, but consistent! Other cheek as well the one-God idea as well destroy your soul after spread lies of YHVH the... Is Mesha 's victories in his day, for Chemosh was angry at his land worshipping gods... Of YHVH, the god of Moabites. it ] chemosh vs yahweh king Israel... Was dedicated to Chemosh. `` very mountain where Moses traditionally saw the promised land before dying whom he dedicated.

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