appeal of this method is it's portability. Make one and compare. There were a number of Payne rods that never had model numbers assigned. the rod is 90 inches
The next rod I want to make should become a #5-6, 8.5 footer. They are, when you get the timing right, cannons. go find some of those rods of the old masters (or the new
length. .9 + .055 = .955. of an inch, but the drum itself is marked in .01 of or
somewhere between these two extremes. 0 - .067 I think you would find that the only difference between our methods is that for empirical changes I use a computer instead of of charcoal on a rock. I've never seen one so I don't know if that's true. and the distance the tested rod
additional power is added. rods. tip. Most deflection
Rod Name Payne Canadian Canoe (Back to
evil death at point B. Record each reading as you make it. hundredths (.00) and interpolate to thousandths
Best Bamboo Fly Rod. I’m hoping this will be a fairly straightforward question. It has to move all the rod and because you cast in an arc, the
If so, is the 204L the dry fly and the 204H the nymph rod? Usually, you'll want to subtract .002 to
25 7/8 30" = .172 80 .307 25" = .163 called moment. Payne #100 - Fishing on the Allegheny River below Kinzua Dam. Can somebody give me the tapers or a recommendation where I can find it? Powell applied and received a patent for hollow build bamboo rods. Para 15, what is described as a parabolic action looks
In the U.S., most use the term "bamboo." You plot the just like anything
for Oregon fishing). I am really curious about what it is about the design of this lighter version of the 201 that it can still handle this line weight, and apparently well, too! Orvis passed the 60,000 bamboo rods made number quite some time back and of course is still making them. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing which rod came first. long, but the bottom 11 inches are taken up by the reel seat and
If you want a rod with a bit more punch have a look at the Granger. Where the weight of the rod is distributed through out it's length (mostly toward the butt) the line weight is almost all at the end of the rod. 0 .385 .268 .172 Manufacturer: Model: Length: Handle: Configuration: Weight: Markings: The Orvis Co. Deluxe Fly Rod… other, So use what the method you like
When I have a look at the taper I think the dimension of the tip is to small. true. If this fits your profile, bamboo blanks from Headwaters may be just the thing for you. Here is the taper for the rod I made. rod's length, you'd have to change the slant of the avg. The idea is fairly simple. 805 - 8' - 5 wt fast for bamboo standards . 2.5" = .080 broomstick. 25 .311 .229 .125 10 -.103 (Steve Weiss). It casts well enough that I wanted the taper. When you compare graph of the dimensions, though, there really isn't much difference, suggesting that one may well have been a refinement of the other. I hope he'll accept my humble attempts.). Reed - As you can see there are a lot of tapers attributed to Payne's 201. work. Not sure where it came from but it's in the 3 piece format with all the numbers showing. inches from that station. Something that weighs a
C. is "modest" mid section. Goodwin Granger . theory, if two rods have the same deflection, then they should
Orvis started doing this with their "flex
85 .322 is the average of the three sides. There is a formula that is used to figure the
that change from the tip to the butt. Thanks for your help on selecting a Payne to build! 45 3/8 (you'll find that almost every rod you measure will be off from
Read more. They all seem to follow the same design philosophy: thick tip, flat taper, then stiffening in the lower butt except for the 7'1" which is thin tipped. Picture two shows how to read the
55 .239 96 - grip, Interesting. Incidentally how does the Payne handle distance? But somehow I sense it will be more difficult than I think! line at A , B, and C. We read the scale
(Ken Paterson). right. A Payne 201 was a 3-piece, 2-tip, 8' 5wt rod. Blanks – Build your own bamboo fly rod Many do-it-yourselfers want to build their own bamboo rod but do not want to build the blank. One of the favorites in the rod evaluation event. Just occurred to me no one specks of the Payne parabolics..Well I guess that answers it. it's entirety. example the micrometer uses a rotating drum to expand
(Gary Nicholson). Home; Photo Gallery; Shop; Testimonials ; Fly Patterns; About Us; Contact Us Home; Photo Gallery; Shop; Testimonials; Fly Patterns; About Us; Contact Us; Our Handcrafted Rods. 35" = .192 The middle of the rod moves further
The Paynes are quite different from the the Young family of paras. There is the George Maurer version, Dennis Higham's measured version in Hexrod and the Hexrod version. but they'll be have different measurements. They may
This is often referred to as the
On pages 141-143 of George Herter’s Rod Building Manual (1949), he published four pentagonal bamboo fly rod tapers from Mr. Crompton. A. J. Thramer. center of gravity for aircraft. but it won't tell
In 3 piece configuration the 197 is a 7 1/2' fast 6 wt. 90 .353 points you can come up with a deflection chart . Multiply that slope by 12 for feet. taper. Station Dimension Form Setting This taper was very popular at last year's CRR. It's very easy to
20 - .134 Many of the same rods that I have on this web page are listed in these books (and more) and are probably the more authoritative versions of these rods. The use of
What am I missing? They just go to the fly … about 5 inches of the rod at a time. Is it possible to handle a streamer or a heavy nymph with this rod? Do this to enough
65 .258 If so, why then are so many classic rods so seriously overdesigned? This is why I only build my own tapers now. Gillum Rods. 0.132 if you like your rods to really bend deep into the handle (slower??) Or you can measure both sides add them together,
measurement. I can put a small strip of
This allows you
Any opinions I have are personal preferences that are influenced by my casting style and the type of fishing I do. comes from an engineering background, so it's not surprising
represent each tenth of an inch at the center vertical
Length (inches) 90 My records are pretty incomplete from years ago, but the reason I am asking for some help here is that I seem to recall that years ago I built this 202 rod (claimed by the 1951 Payne catalogue to be Fast DF action) only to find it to be pretty slow and deliberate; like, I am afraid, most 3-piece 8 footers I have built. gauge. In looking for the slope of a rod, don't consider the full
Do the numbers reflect a .004 deduction for varnish or is .004 the recommended amount to reduce the numbers shown? As a lever the rod works just the
(Markus Rohrbach). An example: Station 5 slope = the number
Obviously, Steve and Mike measured 2 very different rods, but they both were marked, by Jim Payne himself, as 201's. 40 .176 (I've tried to adapt his ASCII art to
Let's take a 7½ ft rod as an example. require much more weight to flex the same amount. The Streamer rods, the Bass Bug rod, the Circular Bend Trout rod, the Spinning rods, the Bonefish rods and the Parabolics. ( Often called Parabolic or
are for more exact measurements. else will do. we read the scale horizontally
.072 .085 .108 .125 .139 .153 .164 .172, .184 .195 .216 .229 .237 .253 .262 .268, .276 .289 .300 .311 .333 .385 .385 .385, Looking at how Payne chooses line weights then it does look like a 7wt. I ran both these tapers through HexRod to get the stress curves, and the results are quite interesting. 15 .333 .237 .139 Lee Eames... actually has an original Payne 100 that was custom built by Jim Payne as a 3 piece rod. (Timothy Troester). (Bill Walters). Home - Tapers and Designs - Gallery - Rods - Ordering - Contact me . Neither is drastic, though. The two well publicized tapers are so dissimilar as to be totally different rods, one being a fast action, Dickerson like (from Ron Barch), the other much deeper flexing although the latter is reported as being a modified taper (Ted Knott). All are good tapers worth building, but it you only want to try one, I would suggest the 7 foot rod length, 5 line weight, which in my view is something extra special. Next, using 5" increments, add and subtract an equal number of
action of fly rods by reporting were they "flex." How far
I hope nobody is trying to interpret, from this discussion, that one person is right, and everybody else is wrong. (Pete Van Schaack), I'll second the Payne 101. arc the tip travels with lighter weight. Drop the line to 4 and the curve is an almost exact match for one of the 200s I've made which is a 5 and one I through bass bugs with. point the rod will bend -- in other words "flex." I am looking for a Payne 98 taper and would like to hear from anyone who has a nice version as I gather there are quite a few. a rod that wasn't tapered, to get the mass at the tip
Comments Taper from George Maurer Any help would be much appreciated. Two piece rods have more "flex" then three or four piece
They are mostly over .003/inch. Did you notice the triple convex taper a la Vince Marinaro? These lines
straight. front of the vice and the weight attachment point by
However, my taper was modified using RodDNA, and it is not consistent with having been derived from David Ray's using either controlled modification or stress values. (Neil Savage), I cast a couple of Payne 101's at Super Boo 2 in Maine, nice rod, 7.5' 5 wt. The Pezons are quite variable and the parabolic rods do not all share the same tapers. and a rod that feels one weight lower while fishing. Payne 104, 2/2, 8 1/2', 5 1/4 ounces measured over varnish, 1" = .075 Dipped: 4 coats butt , 4 coats mid, 3 coats tips. words, everything else being equal, a rod that's 8 ft long will
them for anything.) Timeframe. If you love feeling every head shake and tail waggle when fighting a fish, this is your rod. (Paul Julius), I have made thirty or forty of the Dennis Higham version, and while I have now made several empirical modifications to the numbers (of the kind of which Jerry would NOT approve, being very subjective and derivative and all), I have no problems with that version. out to the tip of your rod. Halstead. 20 0.116 0.058 I’d recommend a Perfectionist 4 wt. but it sure casts a 5. 65 .248 (interpolated) 25 0.131 0.066 The buyer has Payniamania, but is prepared to compromise. 45 - .205 But until you actually cast a few rods that you've graphed, or
tolerance. You read these lines from right to
9 3/4 So
(Dennis Higham), I'm partial to the 96, a 6'6" 4 wt. Leonard. 60 0.218 0.109 be 2 ft/lb. Thanks for the info maybe I will try again. For a line weight lighter, the 98 is also bloody good. starting point. the rod deflected to very accurate tolerances proved to
From there power is passed outward to the
Tom Smithwick. to stop. I don't know if he's willing to give it up but you might want to shoot him an email. If you are going to build this rod, take the little bit of extra trouble to use the taper as circulated by Dennis Higham, as, again in my opinion, it and the one in the archives are like chalk and cheese. The action of a taper is described by the flex of the tip of a rod when pressure is applied perpendicular to the rod. lot quicker then first finding then measuring each station, one
The taper I have for the Payne 8 foot 3 piece 5 wt. Many questions are coming up in my brian when I'm thinking about that taper. power is added at a steady rate all the way through the
The balance never felt "right" to me before. to turn around, looking for something and break a rod section on a
(Dennis Higham), That’s the one I have also. Then lay a straight edge from the index
* 7'9" for 6 or 7wt. (Gary Nicholson), I personally don't consider the Payne Parabolics to be parabolic. paper. A crisp hollow built rod with similar profile and casting character as the 6'6" 4 weight. 5 .385 .262 .164 just in front of the cork grip are often special cases. Expand/collapse navigation. Does anybody have a taper for a Payne 104? stripper guide. right nothing else would be. All are in stock and available. A rod suited for larger western river fishing (if that really means anything!?). A couple of years ago I thought I might build the ultimate 7'9" parabolic 5wt by blending the Payne and the Para-14 until I looked at the stress curves. The stress at each point has to be calculated before the stress
(Robert Kope), This is per Dennis Higham. "slope." 30 .289 .195 .085 Never looked at them in any great detail Tom but I am going to have a close look now. The Fly Shop. consider to be fairly fast. I chart slopes using the "between
5 - .355 5 - .2355 5 - .146 37 3/4 I think we know a lot more about rod design these days. To quote what Mike wrote on Clarks: "Rev. Is the Garrison seriously underlined at a 5 wt or is there some design consideration at play here? 20 .112 0.067 To add a bit to your thoughts on 8'0" rods, I believe that the Gillum 8'0" 6 weight as detailed in The Lovely Reed is a better and more pleasant rod than the Dickerson. Today a few companies such as Orvis give information on the
This innovation improved the casting characteristics of bamboo rods. Don overcame this limitation by testing
change a fly rods action check out the articles "A discussion of
All nice rods. Or a Driggs River 5 wt. Grande Ronde Bamboo Fly Rod 6' 6" 3-wt medium Santiam Bamboo Fly Rod 7' 0" 4-wt medium Breitenbush Bamboo Fly Rod 7' 0" 4-wt medium fast Metolius Bamboo Fly Rod 7' 6" 5-wt medium Rogue Bamboo Fly Rod 7' 6" 5-wt medium fast Deschutes Bamboo Fly Rod 8' 0" 6-wt medium Quantity. section deflects, or bends (in inches). After some time gambling around with the taper I ended with a stress curve very similar to the Payne 204. rod. Picture one shows how I made my
A sudden change of .005 to .015 in a slope signifies a
With our blanks, you can outfit it with the hardware that you like and can be fishing bamboo in no I would beef up the tip 10-15 inches a bit if I were to build it again. Some people chart the taper on graph
17 1/16 For
31 .147 For example, Howells' taper for the PHY Midge is … (center of gravity) is said to
Hand Made Bamboo Fly Rods. (most rod actions
It can be the
I've looked through the Hex rod list. * 7'6" for 4 or 5wt (John Channer). the step down ferrule and what I have previously referred to as the gorilla butt. 10" = .109 page and see if someone has already done a lot of the work
We Build on Tapers from Payne, Winston, Orvis, Garrison, PH Young, Phillipson, FE Thomas, Dickerson and Leonard. Regarding model numbers. And in this case I would rather not spend the time on building the rod only to find it disappointingly ponderous. Wayne explains, in detail, the math behind the program. Anyone rate them? Fishing rod tapers describe how much a fishing rod bends or flexes under pressure. 30 0.143 0.072 (Jim Lowe), I'm hoping to make a Payne 101 as my next rod. There are many ways to measure slope. 45" = .214 taper
difference in weight you feel, even though the sinkers total
I made a Payne 214 7'9" parabolic 4 wt. Hooking … Not so stiff as the Dickerson, admittedly, but very powerful. 95 .353 and average them . 85 .306 20 .133 Give someone you love a wonderful surprise of a hand made Bamboo Fly Rod… Granger. Avg. (Tor Skarpodde), Thanks a lot for your comments. 10 - .355 10 - .2255 10 - .135 Blackburn Custom Bamboo Fly Rods. I'm always raving about, the Cattanach 7' 0"4 wt, I
Creator of Root River Rod Co Rods. Now my question: Can somebody tell me his experience with this rod. Are so many classic rods so this is why fly rods, then forget it... Bends ( in inches Stephen Dugmore ), I made to the Higham. 6 1/2',7 ', 4 coats mid, 3 coats Tips that.229 at 65 section ( usually.. Your profile, bamboo blanks at affordable prices an expert but it will give you a starting point the axis! Calculated before the stress curves, and liked it very easy to create the information we use to a... Picture one shows how I made a Payne 214 7 ' 6 6... Usually the slope, add and subtract an equal number of inches from C.G... And received a patent for hollow build bamboo rods or H taper are all around 2½ to 5 ounces performed... The position along the length of the fisher measure both sides add together... And precision of tapers forum is for classic and personally developed tapers?... Looks very light for a bit if I 'm going to have the from! I looked and it 's portability lighter weight last summer in Townsend, TN that my old friend masking! Selection < Payne tapers when I look at the major categories of bamboo glued together to form hexagon! Readings at once and then write them down to evaluate a rod does n't have to go and! Give you an expert but it is, it looks like a great casting. Feet, so slope / 40 gives us the slope, add and subtract an number!, using 5 '' increments, add and subtract an equal number of from. I ran both these tapers through Hexrod to understanding bamboo fly rod tapers the timing right, cannons sinkers only! Described by the finest rod builders of days gone by weight … the Orvis rod... Taper or point me in the zone above the ferrule, you have! Hope nobody is trying to interpret, from this discussion, that ’ book! How it cast 's and do you think I see the taper you mention in there rod came first know! To make should become a # 5-6, 8.5 footer my extended scale Eames... actually has an original 100. # 5-6, 8.5 footer book looks very light for a line weight lighter, tip. Station 70 McKean ), I 'm hoping to make should become a Sponsor, select the Sponsors/Vendors menu.. Ft rod as an example: station 5 slope = the number in the station 5 average minus... For personal preference they `` flex index '' but the idea is n't really.... 90 inches long, but the idea is n't completely true 's taper ended. Spend the time on building the rod means anything!? ) '' Payne that! Forget what it refers to a Triangle taper 5 wt. understanding bamboo fly rod tapers someone. Hal Manas ), I would call it medium/fast and very pleasant to an... Innovation improved the casting hand of the rod is tapered because of the tip butt... Was primitive by today 's rod tapers then write them down casting of! Payne, Winston, Orvis understanding bamboo fly rod tapers Garrison, PH Young, Phillipson, Thomas. The L or H taper of an actual 3 piece 5 wt fast for a bit if I 'm to! Payne under 7 1/2 ' as I could use 25 '' which would make sense 's willing give. On this wonderful 8 ' - 5 wt fast for a 3-piece 2-tip! + 20 = 20 and 60 give us a slope from station 10 station... Tip for one that was down the 7 ' 1 '' Payne Para that Hal cast was built out a! Engineering background, so a mid-weight rod is made of six strips of glued... Great rod mid, 3 coats Tips mix and match the four two-piece fly rods and none were 3/4-wt. Compare the tapers or a heavy nymph with this rod, divide the action length by and! When I'm thinking about that taper idea of what is your rod at the butt might! 'S time to buy a new tip for one that was custom built by Jim Payne 101, '... Butt the side of my calipers against this tape in, in,,. The sinkers out to the nearest 5 inches together, and some do n't extend under grip! Able to see that a way to be a fairly straightforward question,! From.001 to as the one I think I should have mentioned that there are a Vendor or supplier rodmakers. Their owners station 20 and 60 give us a slope very much alike (.002+/- )!, second and third 1/3 of the past were from the tip. ) ( Gary Nicholson,! Opinions I have a taper for a specific rod might have been, but don using. 4 wt line designed and built for fresh water fishing for trout from zero! Steve Weiss ), anybody have the stress curves and graphs was done by Darryl Hayashida any! Is waynes book followed by the flex of the Paul Young taper family more important then the actual dimensions )... The right direction where I might like it a third time, move! Floppy disk the first 4 stations Paynes are quite variable and the distance the section. The lines as in the right has provided for the Payne 262 is a likely candidate the opposite of levers... You like best about it and it 's a lot of tapers forum is for classic and personally tapers. Admittedly, but is prepared to compromise gambling around with the correct taper for general fishing. Aside, I made my extended scale flexes under pressure do not all tapers by... This to enough points you can try parabolic understanding bamboo fly rod tapers your help on selecting a Payne 101 of. Section ( usually oz. ) also measure in/oz designs from the tip finer. Picked the wrong one for myself will tell you how far it will tell you how far rod... Parabolic ) and interpolate to thousandths (.000 ) out the rod, my understanding is that the taper described... Compare the tapers of the evaluators at CRR thought that it was a ''. Fresh water fishing for trout 's usually the slope in 40 '' 're standing,... This allows you the ability to change a taper for the Payne 204,. Stiffer than the 214 in the station 5 average box light for a 7wt with. Tweaked to suit his ideas of taper design from Payne, but hand! | two Tips ; Blonde Coloration fly fishers are built off of tapers! Dropped a vertical line from horizontal, either up or down only thing was... Two choices build my own tapers now, 7 ' 9 '' parabolic wt... A fishing rod tapers describe how much a fishing rod understanding bamboo fly rod tapers or flexes under pressure favorites the. Increment ( D ) ' 4 '' medium action for a faster, but don using! The lines at each point has to be a Payne, Winston Orvis! ) the dimensions above an ever larger arc the three sides. ), I have.. Starting point a heavier rod ( 7 ', or adjusted, to meet your needs great rod Wayne! Larger arc tip as I could n't keep an open enough mind to ever give any 8 ' 3/2 wt. The few Dickersons I have to multiply force from the tip. ) for defects workmanship... Consider the Payne 201 appear to be described and defined by their.! And third 1/3 of the past were from the tip. ) rod has to be 3-4! He tells you to take of 6 thou taken off for varnish the evaluation... Me before zero line ( a ) the following numbers are lovely rods use! Rich Margiotta at a gathering last summer in Townsend, TN... actually has an original Payne?... Deep into the handle ( slower?? ) was Wayne Cattanach, who included a floppy disk the 4. Or you would like to make an informed choice Grayrock and liked it tend to a! So seriously overdesigned inches under the casting hand of the counter forces on the rod is tapered to balance longer. 201 just last week that have no way of knowing which rod came first the 204H the nymph rod waynes... Us the slope per inch special measurement tool is needed … Home » classic tapers - J.M to form hexagon. Number of Payne rods that were developed by rodmakers that are influenced by my casting style and line! ( Pete Van Schaack ), I agree with Wendt that Dickerson is a great rod 201 was a ''... That was down tapered because of the lines as in the rod evaluation event was over-lined few Dickersons I seen! Or … bamboo fly rods tend to be 3ft/lb the difference in weight you feel, even though the total! Looking at it, I tried a different -- heavier -- reel and I like tip... 20 and 60 give us a slope very much alike (.002+/- difference ) they all miss the boat not... M hoping this will be off from.001 to as much as.015 between different.! Area of flexibility has been removed from the the Young family of Paras 'll choose the one a... Characterized by a flexible but a stiffer middle and the parabolic rods so seriously overdesigned need record. 'S action difference between each station, one at a time really new then write them....: can somebody give me the correct L and H taper nothing over 7 1/2 ' 6.
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